Victor-Victoria (people in Madrid), a photo from Madrid, Madrid

Photographer's Note

Duality, ambiguity, man, woman... A few days ago I had a conversation throught TE with Joseelias about a photo of the gay pride in Paris. He told me then that for many people the fact of homosexuality is something scaring, a horror made out of ignorance and historical prejudices. I think he´s right, that´s way I encourage all straight people to run to the nearest gay organization and be themselves while knowing a group of people that has existed since the humanity is humanity, that will keep going till the end of time.
(The light was high, I did my best)

PS (05/july/2005): This photo as well as the note is an invitation to know each other, to understand, to open the mind. Thanks for all the opinions and critics. Someday dogmatism will transform into dialogue. Take care, TE more than ever has been a great discovering.

marieaude, coco, SylFondacci, Rinie_Hoff, pridel, jpages, eleparc, Rockyboy, Guenther, HalloweenHJB, bebel, MaJose, capthaddock, bfly, leonorkuhn, ndb1958, Coyotyto, alejandroguzman, billvaneck, tonyking, Vicky, quillo, brevbrev14, xuaxo, jaja1970, calimex, sonkai, KristinsCamera oznaczył to zdjęcie jeko użyteczne

Critiques | Translate

magiqa (1292) 2005-07-04 14:53

I do not like this picture, to me it is pornography. Sorry, but that is my opinion, and I do not think I am alone. TE is a place, where you should publish pictures from places all over the world! I hope this pic will be removed!

Rinie_Hoff (9340) 2005-07-04 15:26

Hola Miguel, as everyone takes a look, but no one leaves a comment, I will. Also as a response to Monica's comment.
Like I said in my reply to her, I think this is a nice documentary shot of a guy who is getting dressed for the very happy event for lesbian and gay people of Spain. Whether I would have uploaded myself is not important, You did, and you managed the difficult light very well.
I'm glad you were there to take pictures of this event. Thanks.
Beso, Rinie

[2]

SylFondacci (4087) 2005-07-04 15:27

Hola Miguel !
Que fotografia estupenda !!!
I completely disagree with the comment of magiqa !
This is not pornography at all and I hope this will not be removed from TE. That would mean that TE is a narrow-minded site and TE is the contrary of that ...
This shot is the image of tolerance, the right to be different in Spain and elsewhere, to be oneself.
Congrats Miguel, you have my complete support.
Sylvie

Rockyboy (20598) 2005-07-04 15:55

I know the hard light you have in your city and I found this picture very well done. Also, I want to give 2 points because it's a picture which is perfectly appropriate to TE... I am completly desagree with magiqa.
Now, Spain is futher than Belgium as your politicians voted for the homosexual wedding and adoption... In Belgium, the wedding is voted but not the right to adopt a child... It is in discussion at the moment. By the way, the 2 women neighbors of my parents are married thanks for this first law.
Thanks for sharing this event!

[2] +

pridel (233) 2005-07-04 16:03

Holla Miguel
your photograph is great, Victor or Victoria? what imports ! the word to retain it is : Victory! you chose well your photography, congratulations
and thank's a lot for this photo.
Pascal

jpages (1670) 2005-07-04 16:59

Hola Miguel,
Veo que estás animando al público con tu última instantánea del día del orgullo gay. Ya lleva 130 visitas, en 1 hora! esto es un récord! (ańado... 170 visitas en 2 horas!!! enhorabuena!!!)
Será porqué atrae e invita a ser vista, esto es bueno en una foto, y además seguro que es lo que quería tu protagonista, que le viese todo el mundo lo guapo que se había puesto.
Por cierto, el color de la piél no está quemado (y eso que no usaste pantallas reflectoras de luz como en los anuncios), los azules, incluso el del cielo se ven muy bien, o sea que nada de zonas quemadas, mira... para contrastar... quizás la pierna derecha estaría mejor toda limpia, sin la sombra, pero es para "buscarle los tres pelos al gato". Nada, que te saliste muy bién con la luz, Miguel.
Un abrazo. Sigue cuidándote!
Jaume

eleparc (24063) 2005-07-04 19:16

Hola Miguelito!

no entiendo nada del mensage de magiqa! se equivoca totalmente! She is totally wrong about pornography! She has a right to dislike nudity but then keep commenting those pics of little flowers and such...

I have taken almost the same one, that i will not post now that you posted yours... and i love it! i love the ambiguity of this man! and i can clearly remember the gentle smile he had, as a contrast to this somewhat provocative outfit;-)

And he has every right to dress ( or undress, haha!) like this on a such a day. He was very successful, in spite of what magiqa might think...

Carma (2440) 2005-07-04 19:28

Sometimes I forget in what kind of world we exist. Yes I am an dreamer and always looks the world from the human side, from the side of heart. Not so long time ago in USA was unaspectable to have a drive in the same bus with black people, today we have situation with homosexual, transexual people. What is pornography here? What to remove? Try to remove life dear people? That is the life given from the same energy to all of us.
Nice photo, great moment of this manifestation, of one life and many similar lifes.
Bravo!
P.S. what we are talking about. Look what critiques one siple scratch have!!!!
http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Croatia/photo177185.htm

erdna (5713) 2005-07-04 21:00

Pretty good Miguel! your photograph is very well done on his legs and ultra high heels.

Andre'

kclai (2267) 2005-07-04 22:35

Yo Miguel
Well, you have sparked the heat about this "outrageous" pic. It's good to have such debates, a healthy debates, I assumed. And we could read them, knowing the individuality and opinion. IT'S REALLY HOT, my man.
Well, back to your MR VICTOR's shot. It's not a new thing in TE anymore since the first post of the gay pride. Should be ashamed of ourself and for others as well.
As what you have debated, it's sad that THEY were unable to be part of this world since their sexual differences. And now, THEY have the chance and been given the chance to be THEMSELVES. Yeah, THEY are FREE. And THEY are part of our community. We have to accept THEM.
Am I right??
About the photo.. I dislike the focusing where you did noy focus at the face instead, because it's a little blur. Isn't it??
Well done again for such intensity in TE.
Yeah, I think, once in awhile we needed to have such "atmosphere" here.
Eric Lai

flydragon (0) 2005-07-05 2:48

i dont see anything about pornography here.

this picture is good for me. somthing i like here, this guy have a man top, and very elegant woman legs. the contrast with the woman shoes and the gothic "font" tatooes.
good also the way u managed this strong light Miguel ;o)
well seen
simon

bebel (7588) 2005-07-05 4:09

I am not agree with the comment of Monica Wiegert. It is not pornography and this person is not nude. And it is the report of an public event.
Certainly a way of life that M. W. does not like. I think it is the place in TE for this shot who show earth living as well as the polish religious love for pape's death, and there was a lot of shots about...despite the religion catholic is not the only one in the world.

Coming back to the Miguel's photo, I like it for lights, frame and subject.

Martine (0) 2005-07-05 4:14

bravo - continue et ne vous laissez intimider par des moralist ou des dragons volants !!!

coco (30439) 2005-07-05 4:32

Noooo... Se equivoca Magiqa. TE no pueden ser solo paisajes.
Es más cuestionable colgar una foto en donde ves solo una flor o un insecto (que las hay) que no esto. E incluso las anteriores que he dicho tienen su sitio aquí: pero hay que saber darlas un contexto. Y no se puede cuestionar la presencia de esta foto en TE: su contexto y la foto en sí no lo permiten.

TE no puede ser solo paisajes o puestas de Sol. Sólo con eso no podemos conocer el mundo: sin la gente que vive en esos paisajes, en esas ciudades y en esos pueblos no tiene sentido.
En otras palabras: tiene mucho sentido esta foto porque además habla de un tema de mucha actualidad en Espańa (motivo de más para tener sentido la presencia de esta foto aquí).

Por otra parte (menuda parrafada que he pegado, pero es que me molesta mucho ver que hay quien piensa que solo los paisajes y las puestas de Sol tienen aquí cabida, y mira que yo también he puesto y tú incluso: pero no puede ser solo eso), por otra parte: la luz crea un efecto de cierta dureza, como las sombras, muy atractivo; puede que sea una luz que no aporte unos grandes colores, pero me gusta ver como la sombra le oculta los ojos.
Un saludo.
Y por los puntos caigo del segundo lugar (con la ilusión que me hacía) a... a... joer: qué de puntos.

(Ąme vas a perdonar por la parrafada, eh!)

Guenther (10915) 2005-07-05 5:33

Hola Miguel, claro que tenía que ańadir esta a mis favoritas!!

I read all the comments, what should I say more, I am happy for all the positive reactions you had, which shows how open and nice the TE community is and that the position od Mrs. Wiegert represents just a very small minority!

ĄEnhorabuena y muchsimas gracias!

PixelTerror (0) 2005-07-05 6:29

Hola Miguel,
With the summer heat forums are getting hot these days ;-)
I do not wish to enter this so polarized debate, I just wanted to write you from a photo enthusiast's point of view I like here your bottom up angle and tight framing focusing perfectly on this particular detail scene.
Saludos, Jean-Yves

jinju (14265) 2005-07-05 8:36

Hi Miguel, GREAT photo. I totally support you over this magiqa person. This is a photo that shows the great theatricality of this kind of event and it has every right to be on TE. It teaches us more about the world than most photos because it speaks to the human condition and human issues.

HalloweenHJB (152) 2005-07-05 12:03

Ańado una voz más a la discusión...

I support the vision of DIVERSITY that we all seem to enjoy on TE. I say "SEEM" because when true diversity comes along, some people are uncomfortable and attempt to suggest CENSORSHIP as a response. There is nothing disgusting about a man's body and we should not be shocked to see one in such a charming moment captured by Miguel. (It is a tiresome PATRIARCHAL attitude that women's bodies can be viewed as "art" but male bodies are somehow more sacred and should be kept from public viewing.) Poor Magiqa does not understand this and lends support to those who would oppress both women and men in this world. How very sad for her. THANK YOU MIGUEL FOR YOUR PHOTO. BRAVO!

maurazos (0) 2005-07-05 12:50

Hola, Miguel:

ĄLa que has armado con la fotito! La verdad es que cada vez estoy más alucinado con las reacciones que tiene la gente ante cosas que a mí me parecen de lo más normales como la homosexualidad. Luego no se escandalizan tanto por el hambre en el tercer mundo. Vivir para ver. Un fotón que apoyo en todos los aspectos. Un abrazo.

****

Dear Magiqa,

Oxford English Dictionary says about pornography:

"noun printed or visual material intended to stimulate sexual excitement".

I don't feel sexually excited when I see this wonderful picture: I just see a wonderful picture, so there's no need to delete it. That's something it happened in Madrid and it must be known, because the event was due to a historic and happy law that was recently approved by the Spanish Parliament: the one that allows homosexuals to get married in Spain.

Fortunately, your home country (Sweden) is worldwide famous for its open-minded people.

Regards.

MaJose (427) 2005-07-05 14:24

Hola Miguel.
Sinceramente, entre el inglés que me cuesta y el contenido de algunos mesajes ... me he perdido. Lo que sí que entiendo es que has levantado una polémica, cosa que siempre puede ser un aliciente si uno respeta las visiones personales de otros foreros, pero hay gente que se ha permitido faltarte al respecto por esta foto, cosa que no entiendo.
La foto tiene su sentido en TE, y más aún porque tu has ańadido el contexto que explica la importancia de la foto. No te cortes y sigue con ello, está bien remover algunas conciencias de vez en cuando.
Un saludo especialmente cordial para tí, hoy, pues parece que te lo están haciendo pasar mal injustificadamente.

P.D.: la foto me gusta, no te lo había dicho; me admira (y envidio) que pueda caminar con esos tacones. Yo me mataría del golpe al caerme desde tan alto ....

rbcy1974 (20758) 2005-07-05 21:13

Hola Miguel:
Que pena no haber visto esta foto en el momento que salio ya que estaba viajando por el Peru.
La accion de arreglarse los tacos en plena calle ha sido capturada perfectamente y lo cual no debe ser nada facil considerando las condiciones extremas de luz y de gente en esa situacion.
Una muy buena foto ya que es capaz de causar una conmocion asi.
Saludos
Daniel

bfly (5775) 2005-07-06 18:10

he looks like a diver..he is slim and lean..he likes high-heels...he has a bracelet and a a tattoo..he gives a feeling of uncertainity for one who is walking above life..as he is a combination (and cntradiction) of symbols...your photograph gives such an uncertaintiy so clearly and neatly that it is very valuable...
hugs..
fusun

capthaddock (28790) 2005-07-07 8:41

Hi Miguel - you managed the harsh light very well, and a good crop that shuts out the people in the background that can otherwise be distracting. I was afraid to open this in my computer at work, but now that I've seen it, I find nothing pornographic about this. I don't understand what disease these ignorant dinosaurs are talking about. If "innocent children" see half of a man's ass what will they do? Become serial killers? get mad cow disease? ....try to lick the screen? Magiwhatsherface's discussion is useless and stupid, bravo for posting.

anakin (2775) 2005-07-08 17:49

Hola Miguel de cuerdo con tus palabras, quiero darte un apoyo en todo lo que as dicho, a los posibles homofóbicos del lugar, eres libre de poner esta foto ya que no atentas contra nadie en ningún sentido, y a quien no le guste simplemente que pase a otra foto, sigue así....buen trabajo....
well done
saludos

leonorkuhn (16237) 2005-07-11 16:56

Hola Miguel,
La foto habla por sí misma: en la parte superior, un hombre y en la otra parte una mujer. Una bonita foto muy bien compuesta, muestra la complejidad del tema.
Saludos,
Leonor

ndb1958 (9289) 2005-07-13 14:02

Hi Miguel,
I'm not sure what I like most in this case, your picture or your note. At least I don't have to decide.
Great work,
Nino

Coyotyto (1305) 2005-07-20 10:40

Hola Miguel !

Je decouvre cette photo, et aussi la confrontation qui en decoule... Malheureusement, certains sont encore tres intolerants, mais cette "polemique" a aussi montre qu'il y a ici beacoup plus de gens tolerents et ouverts d'esprits. Des gens plus "humains" en quelque sorte.

Dans certains cas, j'ai appris que "faire et laisser braire" etait la meilleure solution !! l'indifference est une arme assez utile contre l'intolerance, meme si pas toujours facile a utiliser !

J'aime bien que la photo donne cette impression de dualite, comme tu dis, mais je trouve un peu dommage que son visage et ses yeux soient un peu trop dans l'ombre., contrairement a sa peau bien luisante. Une belle lumiere, que j'aimerais voir comme une lumiere d'espoir.

Saludos Miguel !!
Youssef.

Tue (93458) 2005-07-23 13:40

Hi Miguel,
I'd like to comment on this picture, just because it's a great one, but also to give me your full support after having read the discussion and the opinion of another TE-member, an opinion that makes me sad.
In fact my homecountry Holland was, as you perhaps know, the first in the world in which it was possible for homosexuals to get married and I'm very glad about that as well as to hear about the decission of the Spanish gouvernement on this subject! I hope many other countries will follow. And as said, this is a very good shot, well done indeed!
Groeten,
Lars

alejandroguzman (4684) 2005-08-15 15:33

Despues de leer todo lo escrito sobre esta foto solo me resta escribir palabras que la representan (criterio personal):

tolerancia

soportar

permitir

transigir

paciencia

indulgencia

aguante

RESPETO

considerancion

diferencias

FELICIDADES POR LA FOTO.

ABRAZOS
ALEJANDRO

tonyking (1612) 2005-09-14 4:03

Hey Miguel,
Contrary to anyone who says otherwise, I don't see anything pornographic about this photo. I congratulate you on having the courage to post it and risking any possible negative comments based on its content. As a gay man, I think the thing I fear the most is homophobia as it destroys the spirit.
As for the photo itself, I really like the balance of form and colour.

Vicky (1446) 2005-09-14 9:46

Hi Miguel,
I think you've started something here! Good on you for having the courage to post it. I agree with every comment above, except the first one. Judging by what everyone says, I think she IS very much alone! I've got no time for people who judge others based upon their own lack of knowledge and tolerance. The whole essence of TE is about life on this planet and THIS depicts an aspect of life on this planet. People are people whatever their sexual preference and they should be respectfully treated as such. Bravo, it's a great pic technically and emotionally. Two points well deserved. Very best wishes, Vicky

quillo (11858) 2005-10-25 3:41

Hola Miguel, una foto cumbre en TE.

Te felicito por el reportaje, la nota, el respeto y sobre todo por la defensa al "SENTIDO COMÚN".

Sobre la foto, que te voy a contar que no te hayan dicho ya, para mi conseguir esa naturalidad tiene mucho mérito.

Un abrazo ............ Paco

pitai (3985) 2005-11-23 8:40

Vaya foto polémica que tienes acá Miguel. Buen punto de vista, la luz un poco fuerte. lo que por un lado resalta mejor el cuerpo de la persona, pero por otro crea sombras muy marcadas. La expresión corporal es muy sugestiva. Yo pienso que fue una foto muy difícil de tomar. No solo por que son momentos irrepetibles. Si no, por las condiciones ambientales de luz. En cuanto al tema, ya esta todo dicho y creo que la conclusión es obvia. No?
Buen trabajo,
Gabriel

xuaxo (6854) 2006-09-22 12:19

Olá Miguel,
Excelente foto, para captar esse momento desse evento. A prova que é uma excelente foto para TE é que tem tantas críticas e discussőes. Ainda bem que TE permite esta liberdade e tolerância (apesar de algumas pessoas năo querem essa tolerância).
F

brevbrev14 (140) 2006-09-30 5:34

HI Miguel, i just discovered this shot in TE and i wonder:but where is here the pornography???here i can see a person and his or her shoe..is not important his or her...i see only the person!congrats to have uploaded this shot!i think is right to respect the choice of all the people!about the image i think it is really well taken with great lights and a beautiful detail that shows us the spirit of the event!

Bravissimo Miguel!

CIAO!

Valeria

sonkai (1105) 2008-03-26 6:49

Hola Miguel.
Encontre esta foto en Random photos al entrar en tu galeria,y aparte de parecerme una foto espontanea muy bien lograda,cosa que no resulta siempre facil,y desde luego muy estetica,tambien queria sumarme a los comentarios de aceptacion general para esta foto y su nota,a los comentarios generales que apelan a la tolerancia y al sentido comun y que rechazan los prejuicios de una mal llamada "humanidad" hacia cualquier forma de ser o sentir diferente a la propia,por suerte el mundo siempre sera pluralidad(de raza,de religion,de orientacion sexual...etc)por mucho que algunos se empeńen en lo contrario.Creo sinceramente que esta seńora no encontraria esta misma foto digna del mas cruel infierno si tu nota no hiciera referencia al dia del orguyo gay,cosa que evidencia suficientemente su pensamiento homofobo sin mas.Ańado que si TE no esta para poner cierto tipo de fotos tampoco esta para poner cierto tipo de criticas,que dicho sea de paso,no dicen nada acerca de composicion,color,tecnica,luz..etc,de la foto.
Y para Monica Wiegert: no hace falta hacer halago de un especial sentido maternal para justificar la homofobia,ni ser gay,bi,o trans,para ser tolerante con otra forma de sentir el amor,ni pertenecer a otra raza o pais para no ser racista y xenofobo.Que el mundo seria probablemente un lugar mejor sin comentarios como el suyo.
Saludos Miguel,y perdona por la extension del comentario.

migjan (2927) 2010-05-28 5:07 [Comment]

Show Comment

KristinsCamera (2384) 2013-08-27 18:50

wow, what an introduction to your photography!

i like your thoughts very much, and agree with you. i am a straight female, but have no trouble in seeing the beauty in this shot. fortunately, i live in a very open-minded town and whether or not we agree with the many different lifestyles here, we do try to get along as best we can and not see a lifestyle that we are not used to, as threatening.

back to this shot ~ great light, skin tones (very toned!), and effective use of the cobalt blue accents.

good for you!

warm regards,
kristin